I slept on it.
I closed my eyes, rubbed some essential oils into my scalp, took many deep, cleansing breaths, and finally went to sleep.
The questions were still there when I woke up, suspended in my mind and heart like the cobwebs in my dining room. What does it really mean to extend grace? What does it mean to apologize? What does reconciliation look like in a case like this? Why hasn’t the dance studio sent Bethany’s dance class history? Do we have enough milk? Crap, I didn’t wash Elias’ cross country shirt. Should I have just stayed out of this Rick Warren mess? What will my boss think?
This is all to explain that I do not consider myself an activist. I am passionate, articulate, ambitious. I am a Christian Asian American woman who has been married for more than 20 years and the proud, proud mama of Bethany, Corban and Elias. I am vain. I use eye cream religiously. I am tired. I am in need of a savior so I am deeply grateful Jesus volunteered for that job. I am a wife, mother, writer, friend, sister, daughter, neighbor, advocate. And maybe I need to add activist after all because I can’t drop this just yet. I want to bring some more clarity and understanding over why I chose to blog about the issue, keep up the post and images, and review it today.
Yesterday things exploded on the internet over Rick Warren’s post of an image of a female Red Guard member with the caption “The typical attitude of Saddleback staff as they start work each day.” Warren’s original post went up early Monday, September 23, on Warren’s official Facebook page. Within hours (my guess), readers posted both their concerns over the political and historic overtones of the image as well as their support for the attempt at humor. The FB comment thread was disheartening. There is nothing quite like watching your family’s dirty laundry aired out over FB, and that is what it felt like. There is no joy in showing the world that indeed Christians are imperfect, rude, and in desperate need of the very Jesus we tell everyone else they need.
But it’s necessary to air that out, because the truth will set us free or something like that.
So after all of the requests to acknowledge the mistake and apologize Dr. Sam Tsang got this response on his blog:
Thanks so much for teaching us! It was removed instantly. May God bless you richly. Anytime you have guidance, you (or anyone else) can email me directly, PastorRick@saddleback.com.
May the grace of Jesus be your experience today. Thanks again! Your servant, Rick Warren.
P.S. In 1979, Kay and I felt called of God to serve in China but we were prevented by the government at that time. I had already been a part of planting a church near Nagasaki, Japan where I lived in 1974. When our plans were blocked, we ended up planting Saddleback in California.
Hold all comments for now. Just. Wait.
At this point the entire FB thread, along with the image, and the related Twitter post were removed. “Instantly” meaning 1.5 days later, but whatever. English is not my first language. Poof. Gone. The public discourse, which revealed so many blind spots in our North American evangelical mindset, disappeared. And Warren’s own public comments telling sincere FB followers to essentially get over it and adopt his sense of biblical humor disappeared.
Dr. Tsang’s response today is incredible. My heart tightens when I read it because I can’t hold my tongue with such grace and patience. And lucky for me and you, I am not a Yellow Man. This one ain’t my burden to bear. Wink.
When my husband and I hurt each other, or when my children and I hurt each other, we ask for forgiveness and we apologize. We also try, or are prompted, to explain what we are apologizing for. It’s not nearly as public as what happened with Warren and his faithful supporters, but it hurts, breaks trust, and requires some wisdom.
Soooooo. My little thing is that I don’t see an apology. It’s just semantics, right? Do you see an apology? Because I don’t. And I want to extend grace and turn a blind eye and all of those gracious Christian-y things, but man this is a crazy power dynamic. In my mind there are days when I think I’m a pretty big deal, but I’m not and my kids remind me I’m their favorite mom but I’m not a big deal. So when someone who is a big deal tells a bunch of people to get over it and allows his followers to do the same and lightning speed on FB. Well, that’s a big deal.
And because it all happened on social media, there is proof. BUT WAIT. NO THERE ISN’T. He took it down because …. I don’t know. Because Dr. Tsang was “teaching” him?
There is no public apology or acknowledgement of what the problem and offense actually was. Warren erased it, and along with it the proof. What could’ve been a wonderful opportunity to help his followers understand that leaders of international influence make public mistakes, don’t get the whole cross-cultural thing which is pretty important to missionaries, that he made a mistake, that he apologizes and asks for forgiveness and would they, his followers, who thought the whole Red Guard thing wasn’t a big deal, should do the same, has the appearance of a bunch of online activists shutting him down.
Fine.
It’s happened before. Deadly Viper. Rickshaw Rally. I’ll even throw in A & F. But when evidence of the conflict is completely erased, it opens the door for a new narrative. It happened with DV and it breaks my heart (and sometimes makes my blood boil). That controversy wasn’t about a small group of Asians upset about Asiany things being used for the Gospel. That controversy was about Christians calling out other Christians for ignorant if not racist images and language being used in the name of Jesus. And this case feels strangely similar. I love Jesus just like the authors of DV and the creators of Rickshaw Rally, but let’s be clear here. THEY WERE NOT THE VICTIMS. Erasing the proof without public acknowledgement and apology BY A PUBLIC FIGURE COMMITTING A PUBLIC OFFENSE opens the door for a new narrative. And from where I stand, those new narratives are not written by the Yellow Woman.
As of 10 am CST today there is nothing on Warren’s FB page that resembles an apology. He (or someone on his behalf, in which case he ought to acknowledge that) is still updating things – Saddleback Hong Kong launches next month. Hello?!?!?!? There are a few folks trying to bring the issue back by asking if Warren’s snippets of wisdom and encouragement about forgiveness include Warren himself. There are more than 23,000 likes on Warren’s message of forgiveness. Imagine if all 23,000 followers also understood the mistake he had made and read an apology?
See. Glass half full!
In the meantime, I wrote Warren an email last night and sent it to the address he shared with Dr. Tsang. For your reading pleasure, I am posting my letter to Warren. No, I haven’t gotten a reply from a real person, Warren or otherwise. I’ll keep you posted.
In the meantime, I’d love to hear from you in the comments. Did Warren apologize? Did I miss it? What would have been appropriate?
I need to buy some milk.
Do as I say?
I think it is an inadequate apology, not a model of anything to strive for as spouses, neighbors, missionaries, pastors, etc. As I wrote on your FB wall, I believe the true opportunity to show Christ is in how we apologize with humility and a listening ear. I agree, it is not satisfying.
Thanks, Lisa. We spend so much time trying to teach our children how to listen, to respect, to seek, extend and receive forgiveness. So much for time and age. Peace and grace.
Thanks Kathy. Personally, I don’t read/feel a lot of remorse in Warren’s comment to Dr. Tsang’s post. And while I appreciate his emphasis on teaching/learning, like you I wish Warren had made the choice to in turn teach others through the context of his own mistake. All in all, it’s such a missed opportunity, to apologize deeply and honestly, and to advance a dialog that badly needs to be advanced. Tragic.
And around here we need milk too. And eggs.
Thank you. I am so sad about all of this because of the missed opportunity. I suppose it’s still there. There’s still a chance, just like there is still a chance I will get to the store for milk.
I got the milk. I stayed offline for white and managed to make dinner as well. #FTW
Stil milk-less over here at 7:30 PDT…
Kathy, I always appreciate the honesty and vulnerability you show in this blog. Frankly, I believe the “semantics” here do matter. While expressing his thanks for being taught is good, it doesn’t convey any sympathy toward the pain that was caused. His response is much more similar to the “its a joke, people” brush-off than to an actual apology.
Thanks again for engaging on this; I’m sure it must be exhausting at times. And I would certainly add activist to your list. -=]
Thanks, Anthony. It is exhausting in the same way all things worth doing and are what we are called to do. And my family will only allow activist, if it doesn’t mean mom and wife take a back seat. Peace and grace to you!
” His response is much more similar to the “its a joke, people” brush-off than to an actual apology.“
I completely 100% agree with you.
No apology. And he takes the opportunity to plug his own story. Sigh.
Sigh indeed. I am still hoping…
Kathy, i’m deeply touched AGAIN by your words and am honored to be mentioned in your blog. Thank you. Let’s continue to pray for all parties.
These are the times I wish our virtual connections could be in person so that we could be in the same physical space, pray, lament, hope, commune and praise together.
Indeed, let us do so continuously. Some day, we will shake hand and do ministry together. Some day…
Right on Kathy! There was no apology. None. Zilch. Nada. Nope! What an example he’s setting for all. Albeit, not a good one.
It saddens me. It truly does. There is so much opportunity here!!! It’s Rick Purpose-Driven-Life Warren!! The attention to what I’m writing is a little weird, but man what an example this could still be…
I would think that Pastor Warren is familiar with the following scripture from Matthew 18:15-17 (NIV) –
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
I didn’t see an apology, I saw a soundbite as approved by a lawyer. I hate to say it, but I still feel he needs to apologize, and sincerely. My own blog, Barefoot Christian Faith, has made some gaffes, and not only did we pull the offending post, but apologized for exactly what we had done wrong. We acknowledged it, we discussed it, and we asked for forgiveness. It isn’t hard. Uncomfortable as Hades, but it isn’t hard, and actually goes a lot further for rebuilding that credibility and relationship that your words or actions initially destroyed.
Just my $0.02.
RJK + EJC
Thank you, RJK + EJC, your two cents are worth far more. It is incredibly difficult to apologize and ask for forgiveness, and that is why it is so important. What a wonderful testimony on forgiveness and apologizing! That brings me much hope this morning! Grace and peace!
Dear Kathy, I am a newer reader, and have really appreciated what you write. On this issue in particular, I have learned a lot from you, and feel very grateful for your willingness to engage thoughtfully and articulately with something that may seem small, but really, is not at all. Thanks!
Thanks, Meredith. Your words are a blessing this morning. It does seem small to me, but sometimes the small things are what get us stuck. Welcome, and I hope you find this is a welcoming community where we can learn from one another! Grace and peace!
Kathy Khang You admit you moderate your blog . A comment from a person who claims Warren is being disturbing and not unusual for white males because they get away alot . Now your accusing me of being racist on this blog and soujourners. . So you agree with the comment that this is a white male characteristic ? Were they born with it , does it just come along with the skin pigment ? Your right I used the word racist . The comments you moderated were racist and allowed on your site .
Recent comments by Rick Warren
47 minutes ago
“Never retaliate when people say unkind things about you. Instead, pay them back with a blessing. That is what God wants you to do.” 1 Peter 3:9
Finally back home. Staff handed me a hard copy of an email from someone offended by a picture I posted. If you were hurt, upset, offended, or distressed by my insensitivity I am truly sorry. May God richly bless you.
Mick Sheldon, I am trying to get some time on the elliptical while I type. I try to keep an open forum. I allowed your comments, did I not? I don’t moderate Warren’s blog or Sojourners’ or anyone else’s. What are you asking me? Are you accusing me of something?
Our country has a difficult, painful history of racism. That has not disappeared. Nor has the Church been innocent. I feel that your comments are trying to put words into my mouth and the mouth of another commenter. You may disagree with that, Mick. There is such a thing as White male privilege, and though it is not genetic the cultural and societal norms support it whether or not the person acknowledges it.
If you want to continue commenting, feel free. You are most welcome here. I and other commenters may not agree with you, but if you are respectful I have found folks here return the favor, regardless of their religion, race, ethnicity, gender, etc.
Grace and peace.
Just a comment on stye and language: You wrote, “’Instantly’ meaning 1.5 days later, but whatever. English is not my first language.” That may be true, but (and I mean this as the sincerest compliment) your sense of humor is very British. Glad to have found your blog and Dr. Tsang’s as a couple of positive experiences in the midst of the sad episode.
Wm Darius Myers! Korean was my only language until I entered kindergarten. Much to my parents’ dismay, I can manage at family functions but my tongue is permanently bend by American English.
Your observation on my sense of humor is received as the highest compliment!!! (And my husband claims full credit as he introduced me to Monty Python.)
Peace be with you!
One very good thing that comes out of the RW incident — I found your blog. I LOVE your sense of humor, I was laughing while I read this, my husband look at me like I’m crazy, laughing to the iPad, again.
Well, I’d like to think “I know a dead parrot when I see one.”
I clearly did NOT see an apology at all. I saw that fact before you even asked the question. It bothers me so much how ignorant people still are and choose to be.
I’m honestly not even sure what I saw this morning was an apology, but I will accept it as such. Thanks, Tricia!
I stumbled on this quite by accident and I appreciate the discourse. It feels a little like opening a door in my house and seeing something I wish I hadn’t seen but know you need to face because, after all, it occurred in your house. The ‘house’ in this case is the Church, big C church. I’m white female, southern, and middle aged (for context). To be honest I’m sure I don’t get it- or didn’t get it but now, after reading the linked posts I think I can hear your heart. As a believer I want to hear your heart and – painful as it is- I need the feedback to know what hurts. I don’t want to dismiss something with a flippant, ‘you don’t get the joke,’ but I’m sure I have in the past. I’ll spare you the cultural sensitivity I feel I possess and the times I’ve been hurt myself from other’s lack of sensitivity. I want to be able to hear, really hear, what this means to you and others. I appreciate how you used the Nazi imaging to draw a parallel and that connected the dots for me. Perhaps I should have been able to connect on my own but it helped to have a context I could relate to, is that ok? I want to say more than thank you – comments tend to be fan clubs or hate groups- because you (and the other bloggers) made me think, reflect and repent – even if the repentance is more for omission than commission. What is it they say, “ignorance of the law is no excuse”? Guilty here.
Marion,
Wow! If a few more people in the RW fan club are like you, the situation might be completely different!
I now see the issue is beyond his sensitivity of posting a picture, I’m a bit slow, (please see the comment I wrote on his Facebook below,) in fact, what fueled Dr. Sam Tsang to write his first response is not the picture he posted, rather it’s his brush-off attitude towards those who voiced concerns.
Seriously, how can a person be sensitive to all cultures and all people? Not to mention there are people who are really sensitive, you step on their toe every step you take. I once had a friend who got mad at me because I gave her a birthday gift, go figure. So no need to beat yourself up about not being sensitive enough.
However, in RW’s case, when others point out what that picture means to thousands of Chinese who’ve suffered under the Red Guards, my aunt included, who died as a result, his response was not to apologize right away. As Kathy pointed out, it took him 1.5 days to take it down “immediately,” and in between that, he wrote a comment response that shocked a lot of us.
It is his comment that is the problem.
Though I’ve only had one master’s degree in theology, no PhDs or anything superior to flash, and I’m not a big shot in the Christian theology/church world, I can see how he used Bible verses to his benefit, twisting them, reinterpreting them just a tiny bit to serve his purpose, and in some situations, silencing those who asked questions. If I did that, bad. He did that, it’s astronomically bad. This is super alarming.
My husband has more and higher/superior theological degrees (PhD) than I do, I asked him if he had ever heard of Hebrew ironic humor in Sermon on the Mount, he frowned and said, “What humor?!!!”
To tell you the truth, I hope I’m all wrong in my gut feeling and observations, but I’m about your age, Marion, there are a few times I’m in fact right.
Thank you for your comment, it’s comforting for me.
Thanks for your kind comments. I should clarify- I’m not in or out of the RW fan club, I really don’t follow him at all. I am, however, convicted in my own heart of my own insensitivity and can easily say something hurtful. The lesson for me here is not the things we say but how we deal with them after they get said. This is a very public lesson for all of us. Funny, I have been to seminary – recently- and spent a lot of time dealing with sensitivity to how others hear things but something about this grabbed me in a different way. I think the way Kathy and Dr. Tsang handled this (and I’m sure there are others but these are whose blogs I read) spoke to me. Reading the posts on Dr. Tsang’s blog and seeing how he humbly and graciously owned his feelings and his faults, speaking the truth without vilifying, not excusing but yet giving grace, well, that is the gospel. I don’t like dirty laundry in the house *but* if non-believers check in on this I believe from the responses I have read (again Kathy and Dr. Tsang) they will see the gospel.
Marion, yes, yes!! It’s “not the things we say but how we deal with them after they get said” is exactly it!!
We all make mistakes. I thought I was a kind person and then I got married. Man, I can be mean, selfish, quick to anger, passive-aggressive. And then I had children. Then my dirty laundry spilled out into the minivan, the bank, the preschool, the grocery store (ahhhhh, the grocery store)…
May the Lord be glorified in our attempts at housekeeping.
Grace and peace to you, Marion!!
Marion, I’m glad you stumbled onto this. Perhaps it wasn’t an accident 😉
I love your analogy of seeing something in your house – so many levels to which this makes sense. We see even “our space” on the internet as our house, something we can control, is limited, etc. And our social circles and networks is the house of the big C church.
Thank you, thank you for reading, listening, hearing. We all have unintentionally used flippant language and hurt someone. We are all guilty of it, but there is something about failure that makes us cringe and shy away from accountability. If anyone should be able to correct me it should by my sisters and brothers in Christ, right?
Grace and peace.
Thanks Kathy, I like you.
I stumbled on this through info about the Q Women’s seminar. Yeah, I never knew I was angry or anything but wonderful until I got married and had kids. I especially had NO IDEA I was competitive until I had 3 athletic boys. Nice being self aware, isn’t it? Again, the takeaway is not what RW did – very insensitive but I could have done that (yes, I could have with some equally offensive tweet) but what happened afterwards. We’re breaking new ground in our social media among Christians and very public offenses IMHO need to be addressed more publicly. You can’t offend publicly then expect to deal with it privately because who knows how many people are affected? Sorry for the long posts but I appreciate the after the fact public discourse. I have really learned something from this – and it, for me, has all happened today!
Marion,
I know you’re not “in or out of the RW fan club,” I’m sorry that I was not writing clearly, what I meant was if his fan club has a few more like you, who are truly listening and thinking in the other’s shoe, the situation might be different.
I don’t follow Rick Warren either, I only started visiting his FB page since this whole thing exploded, but while I was there, I learned a lot, something that I will never learn had I not go three days ago.
Kathy,
I slept on it too, with the help of Korea drama to clear my mind. This morning I woke up fully expecting not to have the whole thing in my head anymore, alas! It’s still there. So I come back to your blog, thank you for writing more, I need people to talk to about this issue.
To answer your question, there’s no apology in what he wrote in Sam Tsang’s blog, it’s a thank you for teaching “us” (not me) and I do love Asians bit.
After a nice cup of coffee, I sat down and wrote this on RW’s post where he apologized for his insensitivity for posting “a picture.” But my issue about this matter, and my concern about him is not his insensitivity, the truth is, if he were to apologize for his insensitivity to this and that, and Joe and Jane, he would be Facebooking all day long.
This is what I wrote, in case you haven’t read it already.
Mr. Warren, please allow me to say a few words about your apology. You did not hurt, upset, offend or cause me distress because of the PICTURE you posted, I’ve lived in the U.S. long enough to “get” what you’re trying to say. Insensitive? Yes, especially it was posted just a few days prior to your posting of the launching of Saddleback Hong Kong church.
I sincerely DO NOT believe you intentionally posted that picture to hurt or offend anyone, I DO NOT think you’re a racist as some suggested, and the picture is NOT about discriminating Asians.
However, I was appalled by the COMMENT you made AFTER you saw so many (including non-Asians) trying to draw the insensitivity to your attention. This is the comment you wrote:
“People often miss irony on the Internet. It’s a joke people! If you take this seriously, you really shouldn’t be following me! Did you know that, using Hebrew ironic humor, Jesus inserted several laugh lines- jokes – in the Sermon on the Mount? The self-righteous missed them all while the disciples were undoubtedly giggling!”
(I have in another place of your page asked you to please teach me where and how did you derive the Hebrew ironic humor from the Sermon on the Mount, which verses are the laugh lines-jokes?)
Mr. Warren, no, you did not hurt or offend me because of your INSENSITIVITY of posting “a picture.” Therefore, this apology does not apply to me. You as someone who has a thousand eyes watching every move you make at all times, you are bound to be offending someone somewhere, you can’t please the world.
What broke my heart and caused me to write this is how you chose to deal with the cries on your post: you brushed them off, telling those who feel hurt not to take it seriously, tell them they “shouldn’t be following” you, equate those who don’t get your “humor” as “self-righteous.”
I do not, for a moment, believe this is how you would deal with a brother or sister in Christ if he or she were to come to you in person and told you he or she is hurt by you. Yet, for reasons unknown to me, you chose to respond that way to all these brothers and sisters in Christ on Facebook. It was so shocking for me that I didn’t want to believe it was you who wrote that.
I wrote all these not in anger or bitterness, these emotions have long subsided. I’m writing this because my heart and mind are filled with two irreconcilable images of yours. So please help me understand. I could have written you an email, per your request on Dr. Sam Tsang’s blog, however, I decided to put it here, because the issue started here, so it should be dealt with in the same arena. I believe those who were hurt AND your followers should be able to see this, how they respond is their choice. (I just hope I won’t be called Satan again, as one of your followers did.)
For followers of Mr. Warren whom haven’t seen what sparked all these (because the post was deleted,) please see the following link. I’m only referring you to the link for the sake of presenting the record, what the writer and those who commented said do not completely represent my point of view.
http://engagethepews.wordpress.com/…/
OK, Mommy of One, which K-dramas would you recommend? I must confess that I have not watched any, and if there is one way I am going to regain fluency in my mother tongue I am told it will be through K-dramas.
Thank you for sharing your reflections here!!! Yes!!! Exactly what you said!!! Despite what some commenters on other blogs where I’ve been quoted or reposted, I am not Chinese or Taiwanese. I have no family members who suffered under the hands of the Red Guard. I am Korean. The issue isn’t the image. It was RW’s response to those who explained the image and were concerned, offended, and confused. Being told to “get over it” – AHHHHHH.
I do hope you are referring my sense of humor. I hope it makes you laugh. I make myself laugh a lot, but that’s not really the same.
Grace and peace!!
Kathy,
You are asking an extremely difficult question, which K-drama would I recommend? You mean out of the 5 years of K-dramas I’ve watched?
You see, there are different genres, different actors, actresses that I absolutely love. Well, how about this, judging from the high level of humor you possess, I would think you might appreciate “A Gentleman’s Dignity.” VIKI has an iPad app, English closed caption, well, you might not need it, but I do. If you’re looking for classic romantic drama, I highly recommend “Winter Sonata,” this drama has propelled the “Korean Wave” far and beyond Asia. You’ll have to find it somewhere else though, I think YouTube have it. “City Hunter” for modern action drama.
OK, I can go on and on about K-drama, so let’s not, I need to brush my teeth and start my nightly watching ritual. I wanted to learn Korean, the good news is, after 5 years, I picked up some! But it’s not even at survival level. I always dream about going to Jeju Island, rent a little village hut for six months and write the book that I’ve been talking about writing.
It’s a blessing to find this precious little corner of the internet world where I see boldness, genuine feelings and true humor, they are priceless. Thank you for blogging, will check back often.
I may need to create a separate page on the blog for readers to recommend books, cosmetics, and K-dramas. Now that is something I could get excited about!
Jeju island! My parents honeymooned there, and I have always dreamed about visiting with my husband, kids, and parents. Of course, that would mean I would get no writing done, but I would eat a lot!!. Add places to eat as a page on the blog!!
[…] response as an apology, Warren’s lack of public apology and explanation to his supporters drew more criticism. This story was then picked up by Religion News Service’s Sarah Pulliam Bailey. In addition […]
Kathy, I think Pastor Rick Warren has acknowledged that the post caused hurt and has taken it down so I think its sufficient. When we demand an apology for such things we can become legalistic and miss the point of it all and become hypocrites. We ought to magnify Christ and forgiveness not politics.
God bless you,
Maj
I appreciate your taking time to comment here, Maj. Though, I do not see where politics were magnified over Christ and forgiveness.
No, You did not miss something which is not there.
This actually answered my drawback, thank you! dfeccfbceebc